Product Marketing is BrokenRepair It By Using Thematic Product Launches
Is your product marketing team having trouble coordinating marketing resources in order to handle an unending flow of new product launches with vague release dates as well as a constant stream of product managers wanting to get tons of attention from marketing departments for every new release? Is there some better ways to do it?
- Give the best best focus to every new product release.
- Create a compelling product story where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
- Make sure marketing is organized and well-organized so they can provide their best work to promote new products.
If you're dragging yourself to death with a constant stream of product roadmaps or the endless "t-shirt" size adjustments to estimate agile project estimates or slipping dates for release of your product or worrying that you're letting your managers down, it may be time to think about thematic product releases. Learn how in this episode of Growth Stage!
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Podcast Full Interview: Audio
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Audio Podcast Interview Full: Video
Transcript
David Vogelpohl () (00:04)
Hello everyone! Welcoming to The Growth Stage podcast by . I'm your host, David Vogelpohl. I support the digital product community with my work at . It is my pleasure to bring the very best from community-to-community to you here on the Growth Stage podcast. This episode, we're going to interview someone who's uh, really important to me. We work together at . He's going to be talking about the way that product marketing has been broken and how you can solve it using thematic
product releases we'd like to welcome to Growth Stage Mr. Braden Steel. Braden, welcome.
Braden (00:39)
Thank you, I appreciate your introduction. I'm excited to chat regarding product marketing this morning.
David Vogelpohl () (00:44)
Awesome. And I am so happy to work together here at Braden. And I had an instant of anxiety since I don't often pronounce your name loud. It's like is it possible that this pronunciation might be a strange pronunciation that I forgot to, I have forgotten over time or something, but welcome here. Yeah, of course. And what Braden's going to discuss are his views regarding the flaws in conventional product marketing and the ways in which , what we do is using periodic thematic launches of products.
Braden (00:58)
Yeah. Yeah, thank you.
David Vogelpohl () (01:14)
to give the best care to new product launches, tell an overarching product story where the whole is worth more than the parts. This will help marketing be more planful and aware so that you deliver the highest quality work on your product releases. I was at Spryng hosted by Wynter, W -Y -N -T -E -R, I believe, and also S -P -R -Y -N I don't know, but it's a conference.
There was a roundtable discussing the various issues and challenges in marketing, and the issue of product marketing was brought up. And people were feeling they were running ragged in dealing with every single feature launch, new product releases, trying to make an impact for every single one of them. The topic of thematic releases for products came up somebody was in the group who had proposed it, and we decided to adopt it here in the time of some quarters ago.
So I decided it would be interesting to discuss the topic in this blog today. That's it, Braden, are you ready to kick it off?
Braden (02:18)
Yeah, let's do it. I'm looking forward to discussing the topic. it. it. it.
David Vogelpohl () (02:20)
Alright, good deal. I've been around for some time however I do not have the right answer for this question. What was the first thing you bought online?
Braden (02:28)
It's an awesome idea. I was thinking about the subject. This was during junior high. eBay was hot. And I bought an PlayStation 2 with a bundle of games. There were sporting games, as well as other stuff. And I agonized over the decision of whether to buy it. Then I decided to and enjoyed it. I got a lot of use out of that console, and also had lots of enjoyment.
The other option was with my own money I ever earned was a didgeridoo was the very first thing I ever purchased with my own money online. That's the third alternative.
David Vogelpohl () (03:06)
It's all right. I like how you differentiated between your own money versus the money of your parents how was it like, your parent money? What was the method you used to fund your PSP?
Braden (03:14)
Yeah, I may have earned it through weeding the lawn or cutting the garden or something. However, the second one was just like the real job money that I earned through my own efforts.
David Vogelpohl () (03:24)
Well, I figure if you're cutting the lawn, that's your money, Braden. So, all right. Well, I kind of let it slip a bit in the intro But, can you talk about to the viewers what you do here at or about how you work here?
Braden (03:27)
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, sure. As a senior Product Marketing manager at . My job is everything go-to-market for our entire range of products, and also the various industries we are in. When a new product is launched it's every aspect of messaging that goes under that product and around it. And then providing support for things like B2B, games and other sectors that we're looking forward to selling to. is a merchant of record.
What that means is we take everything from the buy button onwards in a digital product sales experience. We partner in partnership with SaaS companies, gaming companies AI firms B2B companies, and other things like the. that. that. that.
David Vogelpohl () (04:18)
Excellent, excellent. Now, when you describe the kind of work you performed You touched on a bunch of different areas. You touched on product releases, feature releases. Additionally, you mentioned verticals. The B2B category was mentioned. SaaS and video games. The modern marketer tends to favor these vertical positions in relation to a particular product. It just adds to the complexity of marketing products.
But what do you think is wrong with product marketing? What was not working using the old method?
Braden (04:56)
Yeah, it's a really great query. You know, product releases depend on many moving factors that are outside the control of a marketer's product. For instance, engineering issues and customer commitments required, if sales suddenly has a big deal that's like, hey, you need to finish this product before this other product gets released. And there's a lot of moving pieces around these product launch. So, working with the teams from the product team to set the commit dates as well as to comprehend,
when are these products going be released? What does release really mean? Is it generally available or is it still in a beta stage? Then the questions begin to come, well what time do we need to talk about the software? What is it that we want to say? Can we even speak about it since we're testing the product? There are a lot of concerns are being asked, and there's a lot of confusion arises from this particular system of how engineering and product works. And so I think the major thing that's broken is
There's a reason why it's so hard to see the end product, and then plan around a release date and also plan for the product to be prepared to go. And so what can happen is that product marketing professionals like myself end up, knowing, for example, one week or two before the launch date, one week prior to GA and a week before GA, the product manager saying, This will be done. And then, get to and do this job. Then it's like I'm holding on. I got other stuff I had to finish. I know you've mentioned verticals. We've been talking about that.
That's right, it is a huge chunk of time too. And so the question that I've needed to answer and had to think about is, how do I complete the product launch work along with the other tasks of my work in the absence of control over that launch date?
David Vogelpohl () (06:40)
You've seen these floating timelines and so the product's not prepared. The team discovers a flaw just before the deadline. They are able to push through the release and get the release out early. You're trying to coordinate resources with other marketers as well as designers and webmasters as well as content people and stuff similar to this. So this arrangement of these floating dates is what I'm hearing there. What about the other side? Just like I've...
You know, I have worked in the field of product marketing at various times over time. I'm thinking, I feel as if every time I speak to a product person you'll hear them say, I'm releasing X and I'm going to go out and make a statement regarding it. do you feel like expectations about the amount of effort for all these various product launches can be overwhelming? Do you think that's part of what's broken with traditional product marketing?
Braden (07:28)
Yes, absolutely. It's true that these product managers, they're product managers for a reason. They're the ones who own these products. They're super excited about the product. They've been working on these for, you know, up to several years, working to bring these items to be released. So naturally, they'll need the most support they can get for these products. It's difficult to get an executive from the product team come up to you to say that I'm very excited about this new feature.
I'd like a lot of backing, and here's a complete list of my thoughts, and to have to tell you, allow us to slam the brakes just a bit to accommodate reasons A, B or C, and I just can't support you, or I can't because I'm not able to do it, or, and that's difficult to sustain a strong relationship sometimes with the product managers since, you know, they might feel that they do not want to help them or something, which does not happen. Obviously and you're not trying to help as many people as you are able to.
David Vogelpohl () (08:26)
Yeah. This is why, from your perspective in terms managing a go-to market around the launch of a new product You're dealing with floating dates in the traditional model and then every product manager and rightfully so, like you said, with the amount of money and effort they're investing in and it's like we should make a huge splash over this. but with all of those requirements, and the dates floating around, it feels a bit like you're doing less than the best job you can. You're distributing yourself amongst all these things and it's hard to really do your best work is something I'm getting. Does that sound right?
Braden (09:01)
Yeah, yeah, that's right. You end up at an area where lots aspects fall down in a single moment. Then you must figure out how to, what to do about everything. Not only are there only 24 hours in a day, and not even, you know, working all day long as well as pressure that comes with having to consider how to keep all of these issues in your mind. Take the time to learn these technical aspects and.
make them more compact into an item that's market-oriented. So yeah, there's many challenges to overcome.
David Vogelpohl () (09:35)
So you alluded to this in the past when you talked about supporting the product managers as well as the relation with PMMs as well if you will. So do you feel like you are a fan of the old-fashioned model of product marketing, would you say it has some friction with PMMs and PMs?
Braden (09:58)
It's true, I'm thinking that's the case. I've experienced situations where yeah, it's certainly had a tense conversation to straight up admit that I do not have the resources available to help you. You know, when that happens it's important to be attentive and understand what the PM is looking at, but it does create tension. And, you know, it's all about good communication for situations in which, you know, you have to be there and be being attentive.
being clear, being really adept at logging the progress you're making as well as, in the case of, deploying the process of thematic launches to avoid a lot of that challenge that comes from traditional products.
David Vogelpohl () (10:41)
Now you've got the product managers requesting the largest possible megaphone in their announcements. You have the marketers saying"Can we be more strategic so that we can do better work? And you kind of discussed the move to thematic product releases. Let's start with the basics. What exactly is a thematic release?
Braden (10:59)
Yeah, great question. Thematic releases are bundling of products underneath a umbrella of a theme. For example, B2B as the umbrella and all of those products support that theme.
David Vogelpohl () (11:16)
So when we talk about thematic releases I'm guessing that we're talking about not one each week. It could be it's if you're extremely aggressive, but like do you release these in a quarterly manner, or every month?
Braden (11:30)
Good question. There is a spring release or summer and fall release. People aren't around in the Christmas season towards the close of the calendar year, therefore we don't release it in that period. It's true, only three times every year. We also do ad-hoc release every now and then.
David Vogelpohl () (11:45)
So the product org intends to announce that every quarter, we'll see this improvement in the theme of this particular product or line of products and we're going to bring it in advertising for products, but we're planning make it real through a large campaign. Does it comprise the various elements from each of the items and releases within that topic?
Braden (12:08)
Yeah, it does. It contains those components. Then we review our customers' plan and say okay, what are we planning for this year? It helps us organize those products within themes. We aren't always going from a top -down approach or saying, we'll need to solve for theme A What are the items that are relevant to theme A? Instead, we will look at what products we plan to release in the coming year?
And then what's the subject matter that these items can be categorized under in these seasons.
David Vogelpohl () (12:44)
So you'll have this, you'll amplify the sound. You might be off by a quarter, maybe on the release date or something, but there might have been a delay, imagine, and you'll be aware of that it's. Yeah. So you're decoupling the GA in the event you want to in relation to the promotion.
Braden (12:51)
That's correct, yeah.
That's correct. Yeah. That's an approach, you know, we've deployed the strategy, and we've got GA actions that we carry out since these products require promotion once they go live. And so we are part of the thematic process, we can have GA activities and then thematic activities that we can use for every product.
David Vogelpohl () (13:18)
So everybody, every new product, if you will, kind of gets to ride along in the theme releases. There is also a kind of a shorter version similar reasons, such as the GA rollout effectively. This means you have an extra dip here as it seems.
Braden (13:31)
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And it's been really helpful in ensuring that our internal teams have access to GA. So customer success isn't suddenly being able to get feedback from clients. The customers are saying, Hey I'm using this amazing product. I'd like to know more about the product. The customer success team wasn't enabled. This isn't the case because at GA we are releasing FAQs as well as value-based messages to ensure that our internal teams understand what's going on.
And then the go -to -market messaging, like you said, can lag sometimes. If your product is scheduled to release in January and you do not have a theme-based release till April, your product may not receive the same amount of marketing attention early on however it'll be able to tag along with the bigger campaign later throughout the year.
David Vogelpohl () (14:17)
If it was super strategic, would you like to add an X that is, an even bigger release in between the thematic releases if you just happen to have some, that GA date for some like very strategic product you've been waiting on?
Braden (14:30)
Yeah, absolutely. Therefore, we do have some ad-hoc release that we are able to assist with. We attempt to limit them to a couple of releases if we are able to. And we've built a process, you know, with you and the Product team, where we hold a conversation and we say, okay, you are aware of this amazing feature. It doesn't fit under the concept, however it's crucial for reasons A, B and C. And so we plan for that as a team to ensure that everyone understands the process we'll follow. And then, you know, that does get separate consideration.
However, the advantage is there isn't a chance of 15 items all at once, crashing to the floor at the close of each quarter. That's typically the case in the case of products that are delivering everything at the same time.
David Vogelpohl () (15:08)
Thank you.
One of my most favorite business quips is not a joke, but an observation. The idea is that the executive Q3 means the beginning of Q3 while the engineering team Q3 signifies the conclusion of Q3. So it sounds like they're all kind of, well, sliding in there at the close to reach the quarterly OKRs. Yeah. Okay. I've got it.
Braden (15:33)
Absolutely right.
David Vogelpohl () (15:38)
You have a theme due out the next quarter, or maybe in the future or something, but you have a big announcement of a feature or product which doesn't match with the theme. Are you referring to one of those special ones you've been discussing which might come up in between the thematic release?
Braden (15:55)
Yes, precisely as you would expect. So I'll give you an example of what we're doing. The release of payments was early this year. This meant we could offer a variety of interesting payment options. One payment that slipped engineering just couldn't get to it by when the launch happened was Google Pay and everyone knows Google Pay. So, as you can imagine we took a seat to look at the feature and said, how can we make sure that we are promoting Google Pay? This isn't really a B2B service. Therefore we released a version of the feature for Google Pay.
Created some documents for it FAQ documents a blog post or blog post that is promoted on social networks such as this.
David Vogelpohl () (16:29)
What happens if you have this kind of release for an anchor product and a thematic release that slips? It sounded like you still had some the anchor product that was the case in the thematic release that Apple Pay slipped from or Google Pay slipped from. What do you do? You can wait for the thematic release till the anchor products can be included? Or what do you do?
Braden (16:54)
Yeah, I mean, it depends. Oftentimes it can be a wait and see. It's happened. It's true, I was speaking with the Product team this morning who said, Hey, B2B could be something to look and see in the next few months of this year. The benefit of the thematic launch is A, there's no deadline to meet. The deadline is set by us. And so if we need delay that deadline a little bit so that we can better meet the deadlines of engineering and the product We can.
or we can adjust those themes at any point. If a major feature suddenly isn't gonna get launched, maybe we could pick up one or two additional features in order to make an assortment that matches a theme in a different way. This is why there's some an option to modify this model that still allows to accommodate the changes that occur throughout the year.
David Vogelpohl () (17:47)
OK, that makes sense. When I consider a traditional promotional campaign of the release of a feature, it's something like an announcement blog, maybe a press release or a social media post and emailing our customers. contact our potential customers, that sort of thing. How does thematic release differ in terms of structure?
Braden (18:07)
It's true, I've mentioned it a little earlier. A lot of those things are still happening. And at the thematic moment they are taking place, however we also have what we call the GA tasks. Also, a great deal than just internal enablement in -app notifications. When you allow access to a device or software We're providing that technology to our customers and those-- the internal teams within us. We separate that access from the this theme release.
At the moment, instead of focusing on a lot of things that are more similar to, you know, hey, this feature is accessible, fragmented, we can tell the tale about the benefits from all these features together. This is a huge contrast that I've noticed it's not possible to do in the case of releasing something you know, at piecemeal throughout the quarter or the year.
David Vogelpohl () (19:04)
Yeah. And it helps, it seems to help improve the quality of your story. Because I think an example that I think is perfect for me is this quality of life improvements that were like really hard for engineering but do not necessarily improve the marketability of the product. Because, do isn't it? Someone who's on the outside doesn't even know that it was an issue or something. And, and so it's frequently difficult as Phil, as a product marketer to go out and say"Hey everyone, we, we fixed this. when in reality it was really valuable to the company and the customers.
Braden (19:08)
Yeah.
David Vogelpohl () (19:34)
So it's felt like thematic releases not only allow you to kind of give away the megaphone, however, they can also elevate the story of some other improved quality of life enhancements.
Braden (19:43)
Absolutely, yeah, you are able to access that a variety of functions benefit from this, which otherwise wouldn't get marketing activities or, you know, a brief announcement on Pendo. Instead, they live on a landing page alongside these bigger features that, yes, get to, as you said, share that megaphone. There's plenty of benefit for the smaller things, such as improvement in quality of life.
David Vogelpohl () (20:08)
Okay, now that you have this approach, how many quarters of your time are you?
Braden (20:13)
It's our third launch, we're coming up on our third theme launch month, which will be in July.
David Vogelpohl () (20:20)
So, three quarters into the program, do you agree that it's increased your capacity to coordinate marketing resources as well as support new product launches, or is it too soon to judge?
Braden (20:33)
I'd say it's certain that it has improved, from my side. What I've seen isn't just am I able to better support, the team behind the product, but not only support them as well, but also collaborate with the rest of marketing and demand generation. you know, they have a lot of lead times now, which they had not before with the products.
We can also incorporate things in campaigns were previously difficult to achieve. This would be the biggest benefit. However, the second benefit is that it has opened the door for us to work on vertical expansion in other areas such as video games and other games, which we would not have had as much time for or sufficient manpower for pushing these verticals forward.
David Vogelpohl () (21:28)
You mentioned the video game segment for for a while, and 's had video game players for a good long while, almost since the start of the company. You talked about the company being a bit more entangled in the segment. Do you feel like segments could play a role in thematic releases or do you think this is more akin to set of features?
Braden (21:51)
Yeah, segments absolutely play a big role. You know, I mentioned the next release is centered about B2B. This is a market which we're hoping to sell into and that we're enthusiastic about expanding into. I can see a world in which we're doing this in the video game space as well. We've mentioned that how we've upgraded Our Apple Pay and implemented Google Pay. So yeah, expanding using vertical themes does not just give you the possibility, but also allows you for...
The benefits are the same as the theme-driven launch, however it also offers the advantage of coupling things like thought leadership into the thematic launch. This is something you'd be unable to integrate into a conventional product release. And so you can gain a larger, possibly an even bigger push for your campaign and gain more value from these launches for your broader organization.
David Vogelpohl () (22:44)
Excellent. Well, this has been very interesting Braden. I really appreciate you coming to talk on air about this. This was a fascinating conversation in Spryng this week in Austin. It was my thought to kind of bring it to the stage, but it was a blast. Thanks for coming on.
Braden (23:01)
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for inviting me. It was a blast.
David Vogelpohl () (23:04)
Awesome. If you'd like to learn more details about what Braden is working on and possibly his next thematic release, you can go to .com. Thanks everyone for joining this week's episode of Growth Stage. Your host is David Vogelpohl. I enjoy supporting the community of digital products as part of the role I play as . And I love to bring what's best from this community here at the Growth Stage. We appreciate everyone's support.
